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Dozens of masked people raid cafe's in Yogyakarta YOGYAKARTA - About fifty people dressed in black and white wearing a full-face mask raided a number of cafe's that stayed open in this Ramadhan month in Yogyakarta Saturday evening (7 Oct). A representative of the local police in Yogyakarta, Asep Taufik, told that a number of cafe's - among them Made Kafe and Ruwis Kafe in Jl. Parangtritis, anur Kafe in Jl. Mergangsan and Bamboo Resto in Jl Veteran - had become victim to a group raiding them. "A group of people that arrived on motorbikes broke tables, windows and available bottles of drinks in these cafe's".

He told that these raids were related to the fact that the cafe's stayed open during the holy month of Ramadhan and that they disturbed people who were fasting. "We are still looking into these events, we are also taking actions against the people who did this". According to him, the police did not make any arrests in this case up to now. The police were questioning numerous witnesses and the owners of the cafe's. "We are asking the people not to act like anarchists, but to make proper reports about offences made. Outside that we also ask the owners that places of leisure can be closed during the Ramadhan holy month".



Posted in Ramadan @ 09 October 2006 04:19 CET by Jeroen · 'Blog' RSS feed · permalink





Yerun
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Hmmz.. I'll have to check that out then. I didn't hear from it upto now.



Albert
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The succeed every time those hard headed fanatic Muslims, to make the name of their religion BAD.
Don't they know that there are more religions in the world, that there are many toerists in Jogya, who are not Muslims. Even if those area's are not toersit area's.

Even in Jepara where religion is maybe more fanatic, you she every year more and more warungs open during the day. More and more people order food during the day. But of course they will not eat it during the day. Emoticon: Laugh out loud
Even the person behind the counter often when there are no customers hide under neath the counter... For what reason might that be? 7 Emoticon: Confused Emoticon: Shut up! Emoticon: Worship



Yerun
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Two of the cafe's are close to Jl. Prawirotaman, that's close to tourists as well. They aim for that clearly, just to scare them away. There is no other goal than creating anarchy obviously. I don't see what islam has to do with demolishing other people's property as well.



sidia
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On 09-10-2006 06:45 Yerun wrote:
I dont see what islam has to do with demolishing other peoples property as well.


nothing Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Smile



kiwimave
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(Edited) Posted @ 10 October 2006 04:46

Please remember Islam=Peace Emoticon: Wink And just remember Indonesian people didnt ask for Islam, it was forced upon them. They just have to live with it, like a psychiatric patient has to live with his schizophrenia. You cant blame them



sidia
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On 10-10-2006 04:46 kiwimave wrote:
You cant blame them


Yes , you cant blame them. Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Yes!



Malam
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A group of fanatic Muslims try to make the peacefull thinking muslims mouthdead.
It`s a pity, but its seems that it works.



sidia
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Not OmSip with his big mouth. Still kwek kwek .





balangan
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On 09-10-2006 06:45 Yerun wrote:
Two of the cafes are close to Jl. Prawirotaman, thats close to tourists as well. They aim for that clearly, just to scare them away. There is no other goal than creating anarchy obviously. I dont see what islam has to do with demolishing other peoples property as well.


And what about the brothels in Yogya, Yerun? It is still safe to have a quickie overthere? Emoticon: Laugh out loud



Yerun
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What do you mean by 'still safe' ? I don't know from personal experiences, but;

  • Pasar Kembang is old meat, but cheap and you will get a present as well.
  • Mal Malioboro is the place where the young girls hang out, they claim to be 'fresh'
    It should not be hard to find a nice place if you are really interested. The fact that I'm not makes this information limited of course.



  • balangan
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    It should not be hard to find a nice place if you are really interested. The fact that Im not makes this information limited of course.


    Dear Yerun,
    At least you take my question seriously . Thanks for you update! Emoticon: I love it



    sidia
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    Y ,
    Of course it isnt yr own personal experience . Emoticon: Yes!
    Did you get it from someone else ? (Van horen zeggen) Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Smile
    Is yr info reliable. ?



    Jeroen
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    Ooh well, there is plenty to see here, I use my eyes as well, and I have friends who know more than I do, so I can always ask them of course.

    But I think it's time to get ontopic again Emoticon: So funny

    However the topic is relatively small, I didn't notice any damage to Bamboo Resto from the outside for example.



    searching
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    But terror is terror. Theo Van Gogh was only a man. But what the effect of his killing to the fear of Islam critics?



    sidia
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    Theo van Gogh is of topic mr searcher.



    searching
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    The raid is a kind of terror. I just make a comparison, which of course is related.
    Like when you speak about 7/7 bombing, then someone mentioned about Bali Bombing as comparison of bombing, it is related.
    But if I say about Malioboro Mall, then I am off topic.
    What do you think of the terror raid?



    Yerun
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    Of course it's terror, that's as obvious as what, but 'these people' also tell their fellow Muslims that if they make any remark about it, they are a bad muslim. Now tell me who is bad.



    searching
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    I want to ask anyone here - who are the bad moslems, those who do everything according to Quran and Hadiths, or those who doesn't.

    Sadly to say, bad moslems are good people. They are tolerant, they are kind, they don't think non moslems as kuffr (filthy). They don't raid other people's property, or cafe. They don't kill or do riots in the name of religion.



    sidia
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    On 16-10-2006 07:14 searching wrote:


    (A)I want to ask anyone here - who are the bad moslems, those who do everything according to Quran and Hadiths, or those who doesnt.

    (B)Sadly to say, bad moslems are good people. They are tolerant, they are kind, they dont think non moslems as kuffr (filthy). They dont raid other peoples property, or cafe. They dont kill or do riots in the name of religion.


    (A) Asking ??? , now you are fucking people.
    As yr statement that You are ANTI ISLAM.

    Yes , searcher you have found yr (own) truth.
    (B) Pls read again : Bad moslems are good people.
    Good people , like > 90 % moderate moslim are bad moslem ?

    As Indonesian you must understand if I say : Terbuka kedoknya.
    In Dutch , de masker valt weg , de ware aard komt naar buiten.

    I think Indahnesia is not a place to insulting people or the religion of people .
    Cause you are not asking , or discuss with other moderate moslims but only insulting .
    Like yr previous posting abt YHWH en the God of the Moslim .

    Searcher : who do you think you are ?





    searching
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    (A) Asking ??? , now you are fucking people.
    As yr statement that You are ANTI ISLAM.


    No, I say the truth. Most good moslem people I know are those who don't read Quran and hadiths thorougfully. They don't do what Quran and hadiths say in their daily life (except the praying things), they don't really look upon and imitate Mohammed's behaviors.

    Yes , searcher you have found yr (own) truth.
    (B) Pls read again : Bad moslems are good people.
    Good people , like > 90 % moderate moslim are bad moslem ?


    Moderate moslems are bad moslems. They don't do what Quran and Hadiths say thoroughfully. So I am very glad that you are bad moslems, because it means we can befriends.

    As Indonesian you must understand if I say : Terbuka kedoknya.
    In Dutch , de masker valt weg , de ware aard komt naar buiten.


    You keep on writing on "terbukanya kedok". I don't see anything wrong with my statements.
    Good moslems ARE Amrozi, Bin Laden, and others. In Indonesia: FPI, Mujahid Indonesia, and many others.

    I think Indahnesia is not a place to insulting people or the religion of people .
    Cause you are not asking , or discuss with other moderate moslims but only insulting .


    Insulting people? Please explain more.

    Like yr previous posting abt YHWH en the God of the Moslim .


    I have shown you, even the arabic words of that, the reason I think Jewish and Christian people will not believe that YHWH = Allah.
    In the end of the post I said, but it's up to them if they still think the two character as the same.

    Searcher : who do you think you are ?

    I am I, just like what Chairil Anwar said.



    sidia
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    *Yes yr truth.
    Be happy if you have found it.

    *Moderate moslem are bad moslem ?
    Ridicoulus and stupid to sdday it.

    Same comparison if some one (orang bodoh / maybe gila ?) saying Moderate Christians are bad christians.(you can read also A Moderate Jew is a bad Jew.
    Because they are not going to the church , and live not according the christian rules? ( and dont do the same thing as Jesus).

    *About : terbuka kedoknya
    Yes , its to late to denied it.
    In the beginning I have a little chat with you (also with my deutsche freund sascha). You are different because you are only nagging or insulting. Read yr own post.

    Sidia is a moslim KTP , not a friend of FPI or some radicals groups.
    Or people like Amrozi ? or you name it .
    And I am sure that I am a good Moslim Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Puh! Emoticon: Puh!

    Insulting people .
    Yes , because there are more people like Sidia (a good moslim Emoticon: Wink ) , also users in this site.

    * About YHWH the God of the jews and christian and Allah the God of the moslim.
    If you have read(carrefully) tehe bible and the Qur' an , you read that YHWH is the same of Allah.
    Basic mathematics from S.D : a = god , b= god t . :thus a=b Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Yes!

    *You are a searcher for truth who have found his own truth.
    be happy

    PS : Of course you have the right to speak freely etc .Is also according to the dutch law / constitution.
    But dont forget the other rules in the same constitution.
    Thats why I think that Indahnesia is not the right place for you.







    sidia
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    On 16-10-2006 11:26 sidia wrote:


    Basic mathematics from S.D : a = god , b= god t . :thus a=b Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Yes!


    Seracher for truth : For yr convenience :

    I 'll add 2 other points.

    In the Bible and Al Qur' an you can read.

    YHWH (Elohim etc ) is the God of Abraham.
    Allah( with his other names) is the God of Ismael( also for Ibrahim).
    And there is ONLY ONE God.
    Thus YHWH is also the same as ALLAH. (or not ??? Emoticon: Confused Emoticon: Confused )

    My silly thinking (but from 21th century) : If someone making fun about the God of the Moslims , means that he also making fun abt the God of the christians.



    searching
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    *Yes yr truth.
    Be happy if you have found it.


    Still a long search, but when I say that it's the truth Quran doesn't teach peace, I believe I am stating a truth. Know the difference.

    *Moderate moslem are bad moslem ?
    Ridicoulus and stupid to sdday it.


    Not at all.

    Same comparison if some one (orang bodoh / maybe gila ?) saying Moderate Christians are bad christians.(you can read also A Moderate Jew is a bad Jew.
    Because they are not going to the church , and live not according the christian rules? ( and dont do the same thing as Jesus)


    you failed to understand my logic because of your emotion.

    I have already asked you:
    Are moslems who lead their lives according to Quran and hadiths good moslems or bad moslems?
    I believe moslems who don't lead their lives according to Quran and Hadiths are bad moslems.

    Sidia is a moslim KTP , not a friend of FPI or some radicals groups.
    Or people like Amrozi ? or you name it .
    And I am sure that I am a good Moslim


    And here you have answered your own indignation. Clearly you admit that you are a bad moslem, because you say you are only islam KTP.

    Insulting people .
    Yes , because there are more people like Sidia (a good moslim ) , also users in this site.


    Read again about good or bad. I never said that you are a bad human beings. You are a nice and decent person. But you admit yourself that you are a bad moslem (muslim KTP).





    searching
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    About YHWH the God of the jews and christian and Allah the God of the moslim.
    If you have read(carrefully) tehe bible and the Qur' an , you read that YHWH is the same of Allah.
    Basic mathematics from S.D : a = god , b= god t . :thus a=b


    I told you, allah is the lord of satan, genii and of mankind. You can refer back to the arabic and even ask to your friends who understand arabic. You may correct me if I am wrong.
    I also say that after reading about allah, I don't think the Jews and Christians believe that YHWH = allah. As simple as that. But in the end I said to you but it depends on the Jews or the Christians.

    *You are a searcher for truth who have found his own truth.
    be happy


    I never claim that.

    PS : Of course you have the right to speak freely etc .Is also according to the dutch law / constitution.
    But dont forget the other rules in the same constitution.
    Thats why I think that Indahnesia is not the right place for you.


    This is the third time I read you want me to leave this site and I will say to you that I will stay.

    YHWH (Elohim etc ) is the God of Abraham.
    Allah( with his other names) is the God of Ismael( also for Ibrahim).
    And there is ONLY ONE God.
    Thus YHWH is also the same as ALLAH. (or not ??? )


    May be you don't know, but the line used by the Jews and Christians are the line of Ishak. And of course not only the lord of Genii, Satan and off Mankind.

    My silly thinking (but from 21th century) : If someone making fun about the God of the Moslims , means that he also making fun abt the God of the christians.

    Not at all. Different conception, etc. Islam doesn't admit the trinity concept, deny the crucification of jesus, and so on. Islam's allah eradicates the holy promise made by YHWH and the Jews.
    I don't see any sameness and consistency at all.



    sidia
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    On 16-10-2006 12:39 searching wrote:

    This is the third time I read you want me to leave this site and I will say to you that I will stay.

    . Islam doesnt admit the trinity concept, deny the crucification of jesus, and so on.


    O.K. the last time.
    That is only my opinion .

    Only the Roman Cattolics believe in the trinity , the other chrstian not.
    Abt Jesus etc , that is the freedom of everyone to believe in what they have chosen.
    Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye



    Jeroen
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    So what about these masked men, what do they have to do with Jesus, God and Allah? If you ask me, totally nothing.



    sidia
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    On 17-10-2006 05:08 Jeroen wrote:
    So what about these masked men, what do they have to do with Jesus, God and Allah? If you ask me, totally nothing.


    To Jeroen or Yerun ?

    Yes , indeed . Nothing att all.

    Mr Searcher have a big problem , he cant make difference beteween Islam, Moslim , good moslem ? , bad moslem ?
    And he have his own truth .Congratulation , good for him.

    In his postings he mentioned almost always abt the Islam, The Qur'an , Allah , even he is mentioning YHWH(the god of the Jew) , Allah , hadith etc .

    see his own words : Link Islam and teror .(" Islam is identic with terorism")
    , Anti Islam and his previous postings.

    In my opinion he still nagging the Islam as a religion.
    Of course , he is free to speak/write , but nagging is nagging , insulting is insulting.




    searching
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    To Jeroen or Yerun ?

    Yes , indeed . Nothing att all.

    Mr Searcher have a big problem , he cant make difference beteween Islam, Moslim , good moslem ? , bad moslem ?
    And he have his own truth .Congratulation , good for him.

    In his postings he mentioned almost always abt the Islam, The Qur'an , Allah , even he is mentioning YHWH(the god of the Jew) , Allah , hadith etc .

    see his own words : Link Islam and teror .(" Islam is identic with terorism"
    , Anti Islam and his previous postings.

    In my opinion he still nagging the Islam as a religion.
    Of course , he is free to speak/write , but nagging is nagging , insulting is insulting.


    Only after you open Quran and Hadiths, can you say that I am right or wrong. You refuse to open and read yourself, yet you keep saying I insult you.

    Jeroen, I only want to show Sidia that he doesn't know much about Quran and Islam if he thinks Islam is the same as Christianity or Judaism.



    searching
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    Back to the topic, the raid is an attempt of terror, by the group belong to you know who.



    sidia
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    On 17-10-2006 09:47 searching wrote:

    Only after you open Quran and Hadiths, can you say that I am right or wrong. You refuse to open and read yourself, yet you keep saying I insult you.

    Jeroen, I only want to show Sidia that he doesnt know much about Quran and Islam if he thinks Islam is the same as Christianity or Judaism.


    After open the Qur' an and Hadith ??????

    I have many times opened the books (and reading it also Emoticon: Blush Emoticon: Blush )
    Only translated books in Indonesian and or dutch , some times in bahasa england , but not to much , maklum my english is kaput)
    Even I read the Bible . And Veda .
    Yes , for sure .I am reading the Bible and Al Quran ,but not literally .
    Because I am living in the 21th century. Emoticon: Yummie! Emoticon: Yummie! Emoticon: Yummie! Emoticon: Yummie!

    Mr Searcher , you are NOT insulting Sidia. You cannot insult me , because I take your opinion NOT more seriously.
    In the beginning I have try to make a dialouge with you . Like Abah Firdaus (?)
    Now I am only making fun of your opinion. Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Red face Emoticon: Red face Emoticon: So funny Emoticon: So funny

    You are wrong again mr Searcher.
    Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye



    sidia
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    On 17-10-2006 09:48 searching wrote:
    Back to the topic, the raid is an attempt of terror, by the group belong to you know who.

    Yes , back to the topic.

    Its about Dozens of masked people.
    I can understand IF you think or assumed that the group is a certain groups .
    OK I can follow you , MAYbe you are right.(but they are masked , not a group who left their cards).

    My objection is that you make a link and mentioning Allah , Hadith , YHWH etc etc .
    From the beginning you are always talking( only ) about Islam and some times nagging , see yr own postings , all of them .But its a free country , a free site. Not an Indonesian site.
    I am also a guest here.
    I come here to make fun , friends , talking about hotels , girls Emoticon: Blush shame on me , culture , even omong kosong.
    Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye




    searching
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    have many times opened the books (and reading it also )
    Only translated books in Indonesian and or dutch , some times in bahasa england , but not to much , maklum my english is kaput)
    Even I read the Bible . And Veda .
    Yes , for sure .I am reading the Bible and Al Quran ,but not literally .
    Because I am living in the 21th century.


    It's up to you. But when the Quran said "kill the pagan and slay them where you find them", do you think it's literal or not?
    You sound funny. Ok, educate me on how to understand Quran not literally. I will show more educated people in Islam show different opinions.

    Mr Searcher , you are NOT insulting Sidia. You cannot insult me , because I take your opinion NOT more seriously.
    In the beginning I have try to make a dialouge with you . Like Abah Firdaus (?)
    Now I am only making fun of your opinion.


    Good then. Trying to undermine what I say. Funny, but I always back up my sayings with verses, while you keep saying "it's not like that, it's not like this", without giving any proof.

    Any sane reader will know who really talk based on evidence.

    You are wrong again mr Searcher.


    Oh, wrong again. too bad.

    Its about Dozens of masked people.
    I can understand IF you think or assumed that the group is a certain groups .
    OK I can follow you , MAYbe you are right.(but they are masked , not a group who left their cards).


    Hm. well, glad that we agree on something.

    My objection is that you make a link and mentioning Allah , Hadith , YHWH etc etc .
    From the beginning you are always talking( only ) about Islam and some times nagging , see yr own postings , all of them .But its a free country , a free site. Not an Indonesian site.
    I am also a guest here.


    Because I care to see the reason behind all the FPI, the raids, everything here. Omong kosong or not, we must discuss something serious for the future of Indonesia.
    If I say this in public, I will be condemned to death. Tibo, etc, was condemned to death.
    Islam should be reformed. But I doubt on Islam, since moslems regard Quran as a direct word of Allah, thus unchangeable.



    sidia
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    On 17-10-2006 15:39 searching wrote:

    Tibo, etc, was condemned to death.

    since moslems regard Quran as a direct word of Allah, thus unchangeable.


    Tibo ?? , Tibo , Off Topic again Mr Searcher.

    No one can change the words of god.
    The same rules bij the Christianity .The Jews and The Hindu.

    From dozens Masked People to Qur' an , to Allah , to Tibo and so on. Emoticon: Confused Emoticon: Confused
    You lost yr way Mr Searcher , OFF Topic !!!!
    Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye



    searching
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    From dozens Masked People to Qur' an , to Allah , to Tibo and so on.
    You lost yr way Mr Searcher , OFF Topic !!!!


    So what do you think of the people who love to raid cafes, bar, and become a religious police in Indonesia? Are they good moslems or bad moslems, and what is the criteria for answering whether they are good or bad? Please answer with evidence.



    sidia
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    On 18-10-2006 09:42 searching wrote:
    From dozens Masked People to Qur an , to Allah , to Tibo and so on.
    You lost yr way Mr Searcher , OFF Topic !!!!


    So what do you think of the people who love to raid cafes, bar, and become a religious police in Indonesia? Are they good moslems or bad moslems, and what is the criteria for answering whether they are good or bad? Please answer with evidence.


    Pls On Topic Mr Searcher.!!!! ( ngalor , ngidul)

    Now you are linking masked dozens people with FPI , Moslem (good ,bad moslems).
    Yr own Mask is fallen Mr Searcher.Its to late to denied it.
    ( Sudah terbuka kedokmu )

    Btw , people who break the law and terorised other people are criminals.
    With or without masked.

    Sidia love Zorro Emoticon: Shiny Emoticon: Party! Emoticon: Party! Emoticon: Party!
    Zorrooooo , tagadam , tagadam , tagadam.



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    Pls On Topic Mr Searcher.!!!! ( ngalor , ngidul)

    Now you are linking masked dozens people with FPI , Moslem (good ,bad moslems).
    Yr own Mask is fallen Mr Searcher.Its to late to denied it.
    ( Sudah terbuka kedokmu )

    Btw , people who break the law and terorised other people are criminals.
    With or without masked.

    Sidia love Zorro
    Zorrooooo , tagadam , tagadam , tagadam.


    Strange answer. I ask you what is your OPINION on the raid on cafes, bars, by moslems. Are they good moslems or bad moslems and give me supporting proof on your OPINION.

    Instead of answering, typical a "moderate" moslem, you refuse to answer, because you know you can't answer that they are bad, because in your own religion, the action is supported.

    By the way, my question is related, but your answer is not related to the topic. I am not one of the raiders with mask, who love to raid cafes and terror people.




    sidia
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    Wah , I must spell my words to you..

    see my posting : " Btw people who break the law and terorised people are criminals ".

    A-r-e c-r-i-m-i-n-a-l-s.

    Are you acting dumb or are you dumb ? Emoticon: Frustrated . Or a Emoticon: Clown ? Emoticon: Stupid
    Maybe my english is no good ? Emoticon: Party! Emoticon: Party! Ayam sori.
    And we are talking (omong kosong) abt. dozens masked people , how I can know who they are? Emoticon: Yeah right! Emoticon: Yeah right! .
    Are they good moslem or bad moslem. I dont know. Emoticon: Confused Emoticon: Confused
    (they are wearing masks).

    bye bye mr searcher . Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye
    Sidia still love Zorro. Emoticon: Smile



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    Wah , I must spell my words to you..

    see my posting : " Btw people who break the law and terorised people are criminals ".

    A-r-e c-r-i-m-i-n-a-l-s.


    My question:

    Strange answer. I ask you what is your OPINION on the raid on cafes, bars, by moslems. Are they good moslems or bad moslems and give me supporting proof on your OPINION.


    May be you are too dumb, because I asked of your moslem brothers' raid to cafes and bars and your opinion according to Islam, your religion, yet you answer that PEOPLE who break laws and terrorize people are criminals.
    Not really connected to the question, I should say.

    Are you acting dumb or are you dumb ? . Or a ?
    Maybe my english is no good ? Ayam sori.


    Or may be you don't want to answer the real question and address the real problem of the raids.

    And we are talking (omong kosong) abt. dozens masked people , how I can know who they are? .
    Are they good moslem or bad moslem. I dont know.
    (they are wearing masks).


    The raids to cafes and bars don't happen only this time. And for previous raids, we have already known that people from FPI do that. So, as a moslem, please tell me what do you think of the raids by them according to your religion, Islam.
    I hope that you understand this for I make my statement as simply as possible.

    bye bye mr searcher .

    Where will you go? Good luck.



    sidia
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    On 22-10-2006 08:31 searching wrote:

    Wah , I must spell my words to you..

    see my posting : " Btw people who break the law and terorised people are criminals ".

    A-r-e c-r-i-m-i-n-a-l-s.


    My question:

    So, as a moslem, please tell me what do you think of the raids by them according to your religion, Islam.
    I hope that you understand this for I make my statement as simply as possible.

    bye bye mr searcher .



    Still dont understand or acting dumb ? Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Smile
    Oke sekali lagi : A-r-e c-r-i-m-i-n-a-l-s

    You cant make diff. between Moslim , Islam , reading the books literally or not.
    Like are decent people I condemned people who broke the law.
    I am sure Emoticon: Puh! that Moslem and Islam like other religions are against people who breaking law.
    Ayam sorry , you are now nagging again. The same and dumb question.
    You little Emoticon: Devil Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Smile
    Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Mister Searcher.



    marcel70
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    Ben het meer eens met search.

    Maar het is ook meer off topic

    Hoe staat het met de topic
    Masked man raid cafe and rumah makan.
    Dat is onderdrukking ups I did it again Emoticon: Blush Emoticon: Blush Emoticon: Blush Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye



    marcel70
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    Finaly Sidia

    More condem on this forum about criminals like that

    But now still opently in indonesia media
    That happend not enough Emoticon: Angry Emoticon: Angry



    Mas Rob
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    (Edited) Posted @ 26 October 2006 10:43

    Searching,

    I think it is not very appropiate to make judgements about good and bad Muslims. Muslims in Indonesia are very serious about their faith, even if they don't pray five times a day or go to a mosque. See what happens if you tell an Islamic Indonesian who has not studied the Qur'an or Hadits that he is not a good Muslim. You'd better have a good health insurance.

    The Quran states that there is no compulsion in religion. If you perform your religious duties, you need to do it out of free will, not because it is compulsory. Moslims believe that it is not for humans to measure up each other's relationship with God. That is a prerogative of the Supreme Being.

    Islam has touched upon many peoples and cultures in a history of many centuries. It is not surprising that Islam has never been a religion set in stone. It has an ability to adapt to different circumstances. And why should it not be so.

    Moslims believe God is beyond our understanding. We can only try to be good human beings. Not only studying the Quran and Hadits, but also reflection on our behaviour in daily life is important. Some will take the mystical path. Moslims who claim to represent the right strain of Islam or claim to do God's will take the risk of committing a very grave sin.

    Many western critics share the same clear cut view of Isam with radical Muslims. This view denies the ability of Islam to adapt to human rights and to democracy and progress. It leaves out Islam's rich variety of ideas and appearances. Who can only see the FPI and radicals as Amrozi in Indonesia, denies the existence of all muslims who fight for human rights and democracy on basis of their belief.

    This kind of attitude will ultimately lead tot marginalisation of those muslims, who are caught between the rock and the hardplate of Islamic radicals and Western critics who cannot see beyond their self-created spectres. 'Clash of cultures' could be a very harmful self-fulfilling prophesy indeed.

    Salam
    Rob









    marcel70
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    Beste Rob
    In Prinicipe heb je gelijk, maar met deze zin is een man als basir het niet eens


    Moslims believe that it is not for humans to measure up each other's relationship with God. That is a prerogative of the Supreme Being.

    I realy hope people as FBI and Basir wil be lead to the way of marginalistion



    sidia
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    On 26-10-2006 12:39 marcel70 wrote:
    Beste Rob

    I realy hope people as FBI and Basir wil be lead to the way of marginalistion

    Who is Basir ?
    Not my idol or friend.

    FBI ? = not FPI ?



    marcel70
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    Sida
    ja FPI en basir weet je wel toh
    Indonesia is een taaltje je schrijft zoals je het zegt Emoticon: Laugh out loud Emoticon: Laugh out loud



    Yogya-Bali
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    Enige jaren had Stephanie Vaassen van de NOS ook al zo'n artikel over moslim-haat tegen homo's in Yogyakarta. Eeen groep fanatieke moslims had een homo-cafe overvallen en kort en klein geslagen.
    De dame was zich er echter niet van bewust dat het hier ging om een afrekening in het criminele (preman) circuit. De eigenaar van de homobar had vele schulden die hij weigerde te betalen. Dus komen op een gegeven moment de debt-collectors langs met een groepje mensen die "duidelijk" de persoon zullen maken dat hij moet betalen. Dit gebeurde door premans die ook vaak voor de PPP als ordedienst fungeerden (dit soort ordediensten zijn gewoon opkoopbaar door een ieder die ze ergens voor nodig heeft).

    Maar een dergelijk verhaal verkoopt niet lekker in NL, dus werd het een moslim-raid op een homobar; oftewel homohaat van extremistische moslims.
    Tjaja, goed onderzoek doen laat nogal eens te wensen over in de journalistiek (en de wetenschap, zoals antropologie -> zie mijn reactie op item Jaloezie).




    Yogya-Bali
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    Sorry, have to do in english.
    The whole raid had nothing to do with islam. I haven't red this topic yet but already know what it is about.
    As usual I wasn't there when it happened but in Lombok (seems to be always on the wrong spot _ or just the right spot - when something happens in my hometown). Yesterday I went to the victims (bars) of this raid and they told me that the perpetrators had quite a few alcoholic drinks before they suddenly slammed everything and shouted that it was intolerable to be open as a bar during the Ramadhan and the way foreigners didn't respect the Ramadhan; this all with a drunken voice.
    It seems that the perpetrators looked more like a militaryman (shortcut hair and trained body) than like beardy, turban wearing, short moslim pants.
    Food for thought?




    Yogya-Bali
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    Again sorry, my other reaction I have also to translate first:

    A few years ago a Dutch journalist of the NOS had produced an article about moslim hatred against homosexuals in Yogyakarta. A group of moslim-fanatics had beated up customers and destroyed a gay-bar.
    This lady wasn't aware of the fact that it was a revenge in the criminal circuit (preman). The owner of the bar had a lot of debts he refused to pay back. So at a certain moment the debt-collectors came along with a group of gangmembers to make this owner clear that he had to apy or otherwise ....
    This raid took place by a paramilitary group who also are often used by the moslim political party PPP (these paramilitary groups are for hire for anybody who needs their "service").

    But a story like that doesn't sell that well in the Netherlands, so it became a moslim-raid on a gay-bar: in other words: hatred against gays by extremist moslims.
    Well, good survey isn't always the strongest point in journalism (and social science like anthropology -> read my reaction on the item about Jealousy amongst Indonesians: Dutch language)




    Jeroen
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    Thanks for translating the messages into English. I have removed the Dutch ones. Emoticon: Smile



    sidia
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    On 29-10-2006 05:15 Yogya-Bali wrote:


    But a story like that doesnt sell that well in the Netherlands, so it became a moslim-raid on a gay-bar: in other words: hatred against gays by extremist moslims.



    OR : hatred against moslims (Islam?) by -------------- Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Wink

    We in Holland have a TV program " De Leugen regeert " Emoticon: Yeah right! Emoticon: Yeah right! Emoticon: Yeah right!



    searching
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    Hm, care to give me the link of the news in Dutch Newspaper, Jogja Bali?




    Yogya-Bali
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    Sorry, it's already too long ago. Perhaps already 3 or 4 years.




    AnisJ
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    (Edited) Posted @ 07 November 2006 12:28

    'Methode Kopassus' masih ada ........ "Is the 'Kopassus method' still effective (???), mereka kerja sekali ....... before George W. Bush is coming to INDOSnesos ....... maybe he brings along new shipments of 'new weapons' against 'terrorism' .......... instead the most effective one: ' ........ fighting poverty .... and corruption' ................. Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Yes!



    sidia
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    Hoeft niet meer , hebt ergens gezien (telepisi) dat Detasemen 88 (anti teror Detasement) werd getraind en ook (mede)gefinancieerd door Big brother Amriki.
    Zelfs de blandanesen hebben ook aandeel bij zo'n Anti Teror Academie ergens in Midden Java.
    Onze users daarO kan het mss pertellen aan ons of het zo is.



    sidia
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    Oeps in bhasa belanda , ayam sori.
    ken geen englis



    AnisJ
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    (Edited) Posted @ 26 January 2007 19:52

    "How modern terrorism uses the internet" by Gabriel Weimann. Internet terrorism .... an American view.



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